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Question...

12Bdesigner 73 posts Feb 22, 2007 10:26 AM	Hello neighbors, I have a question for all of you that currently have an interdistrict transfer or have recently had one approved... Is there any guidance or information you can share? I am planning on applying for a transfer for my son. He will be in 9th grade next year, and I can't in good conscience allow him to attend LHS. I'm not going to give up this fight, and I will continue to stand tall with everyone, but I have to be concerned about my sons education. I have no faith that the HS will be built during his high school career. Any help and suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
cleanfrk 7 posts Feb 22, 2007 11:52 AM	Put your child or teen in swimming. LHS does not have a swimming pool. It used to be that they did not offer French. But they do now have that language option.
kellyg 43 posts Feb 22, 2007 4:17 PM	Shame on you! There is nothing wrong with LHS. Get off your high horse,or better yet go back to the city you came from before moving here. I am so so sick of everyone here(well almost everyone) in TB that thinks that LHS is just not good enough for their kids. Ok so we were all promised a new high school. That is not going to happen for awhile, NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. How will your child due when you pull him away from all his friends and his comfort zone? Are you that ashamed to tell people that your child is at LHS? I would suggest that you talk with your son and see what He would like to do before you pull him out. This is after all about what is best for him and not you. He just might want to stay here and follow his friends through school and yes that is very important too. Last Edited on 22-Feb-2007 4:19 PM
cleanfrk 8 posts Feb 22, 2007 4:57 PM	As I have said before, our teen does go to Lincoln High. People should have a choice at what district they would like their child to be in. LHS can not offer what other schools in our area can. We have one more year here and we will be moving. We have been here for 11+ years. If I was to move back where I came from, I would only move 2 miles away. Its not worth getting so upset over. Everyone is titled to do what is right for their family.
time2ski 108 posts Feb 22, 2007 4:58 PM	Kellyg, Please don't assume that it is only "folks from the city" that are unhappy about LHS. I have heard from many long time Lincoln residents that have been VERY unhappy about the LHS academics and environment, and are even MORE unhappy now that hundreds of more kids will be added to their already-crowded school. Also, I personally know of 8 parents who, in discussing the situation with their children, were all told by their children that they in no way wanted to go to LHS. Very intelligent reasons were given and it is clear that kids are thinking this through and discussing just as we are. While their perspective is different from an adult's, it is clear that discussions are taking place, both inside and outside of the family. Many of us are indeed talking to our children and allowing them to assist with this decision. Please don't assume otherwise. LHS is a good school, obviously with many hardworking and dedicated teachers and students, but just no right for everyone. For those children for whom the LHS model does not fit, they and their families have the right to make alternate decisions without scorn directed their way.
Townie 249 posts Feb 22, 2007 5:00 PM	Kids don't always know what's in their own best interests. Given a choice, I'd wager most would prefer to stay where their friends are. However, if I were a parent, I'd prefer my kid(s) not go to a school with one of the worst test scores in the state. Oh, and then there's the matter of the low numbers of students who go on to college (univeristy, not junior college). The fact of the matter is, the culture at LHS is not that of a winning academic environment. It simply is not a high achieving school. Does all this make me an arrogant Bay Area ex-pat? Perhaps. But then again, I went to a high school where it was EXPECTED that you go on to a 4 year university. It was EXPECTED that you excelled academically. And community service was required. LHS and the cronies at WPUSD have put together one of the worst school systems around. From what I can see, there is no impetus to improve - only excuse-making and hand-wringing. Last Edited on 22-Feb-2007 5:02 PM
12Bdesigner 76 posts Feb 22, 2007 5:08 PM	Shame on me???? No, shame on every single person who had a hand in making LHS and WPUSD the worst perfoming in the county! Shame on me for wanting a QUALITY education for my child? I am not on any high horse. What I do know is I did not spend most of my adult life working my ass off, to spend $500+K in a "GOOD" neighborhood, with "GOOD" schools so my son could go to a mediocre at best high school. The facts speak for themselves. I did not make any of them up. LHS rates a 5 on a scale of 10. Less than 20% of graduates go to a 4 year college. Less than 50% of graduates go to a 2 year college. Only 75% of the students can pass the exit exam. API score have DECLINED in the last 2 CONSECUTIVE years! Currently at a mediocre 694, the minimum set by the state is 800. If you have spent any time reading any of my posts you would see that I am committed to making this situation better. I have done my homework and done the research. I have been to every school board meeting, to most City Council meetings. Believe me, what I have seen is scary. No high horse here, you however DO need to get your head out of the sand! Last Edited on 22-Feb-2007 5:10 PM
DC64 23 posts Feb 22, 2007 5:15 PM	12Bdesigner, I hope you get the transfer for your son. I agree with you. Last Edited on 22-Feb-2007 5:15 PM
kellyg 44 posts Feb 22, 2007 5:46 PM	12B how sad that you based your sons education on the "promise" of something. I assume that you did do your homework on the schools here and what, you thought hey they said they would build it so it must be true. Things dont always go the way they are suppose to. So if you did do your homework you were ok with the what if the school is not built and my son will have to go to LHS or be transfered out.? Maybe you should have bought your house somewhere where the school are already there and up to yor standards.
12Bdesigner 77 posts Feb 22, 2007 6:21 PM	DC, thank you for your support. Kellyg... Did you go to LHS? Is that why you are so passionate about it? Yes, I did my homework. I will agree with you on one thing... I was foolish enough to believe the promises would materialize sometime in the future. That was 3 years ago. Now it looks like nothing is going to happen for at least 5 years. Sorry, I don't have the time. And regarding your other post, my son and I have wonderful communication, thank you for your concern. Perhaps you do not have a teenager. This is not the first time I have made a decision based on what I think is in his best interest that he may have disagreed with. I can assure you it won't be the last. My job is to be his parent first, then his friend. We will disagree from time to time, but I will always make my decisions based on what I believe is in his best interest, long term. And by the way, if you did go to LHS, thank you for making my point. Your grammar is disgraceful! Now, back to my original question... any other ideas? Last Edited on 22-Feb-2007 6:54 PM
MattFox 345 posts Feb 22, 2007 7:39 PM	kellyg, Can you honestly tell us that if you had a choice between LHS and a new school similar to Whitney, that you'd send your kids to LHS? Matt
Rudog 27 posts Feb 22, 2007 9:03 PM	12BDesigner, Kudos to you as you have been a vocal leader regarding the 12B high school fiasco. I agree with everything you have said from the very start about this school district. I wouldn't send my children to LHS either for the same reasons you mentioned. Yes, I personally would be ashamed of telling any person that my children went to LHS. The record and numbers speak for themselves. Let's face it LHS is one of the worst academic performing schools in the Placer area and has been for many, many years. Now they want to send 500 more kids to LHS, when less than 15% are actually going to a 4 year University. If people can't accept that LHS is a poor performing school then they are part of the problem. The parents of this school district are also to blame...How many parents show up at board meetings or get involved in raising money or volunteer in school events...from what I hear very few. The 12B high school fiasco is just par for the course for this city.
homeagain 18 posts Feb 23, 2007 8:14 AM	12bdesigner, I agree with you 100%! I have a daughter in eighth grade-That is exactly why we have applied to private school and will also apply for an interdistrict transfer. Communication is key. My daughter completely understands that we are looking out for her best interest.
kellyg 45 posts Feb 23, 2007 8:38 AM	Ok so say TB gets their new High School,its still the same clowns running it. How can it be better?
cleanfrk 9 posts Feb 23, 2007 11:22 AM	Everyone needs to stop putting down the teens who do attend LHS now. There are a lot of good students, parents and teachers involved in LHS. We are making the best of our situation as it is at this time. A lot of these comments that are made are really ticking my teen off. I will not let her read this site anymore. She did not want to move up here for this same reason. I do feel bad that you were told you would have a brand new school to attend. Everyone has options still left open to them. If you are looking to get a district transfer, I'm sure they will be passing a lot more of these with the current situation that has come up. If I were you I would try for Del Oro over Rocklin. They have a better High school. Please be kind. Life is not fair. You could be insulting your next door neighbor.
MattFox 347 posts Feb 23, 2007 12:29 PM	cleanfrk, there is no reason for your daughter to be upset. No one is putting down the students or teachers at LHS. All we are doing is discussing statistics, and my guess is that what the statistics show are no big surprise to your daughter or anyone else directly involved at LHS. I think we all know that there are plenty of teachers, students and parents at LHS that want nothing but the very best education possible for their children under the circumstances. And that's all we want too. Matt
MattFox 348 posts Feb 23, 2007 12:45 PM	kellyg...so I guess you won't answer my question. All I'm saying is that....all else being equal....I would prefer to send my children to a new modern school in a suburban neighborhood near my house over an old shool in an inner-city neighborhood that is several miles away. Matt Last Edited on 23-Feb-2007 12:47 PM
kellyg 46 posts Feb 23, 2007 1:06 PM	Sorry Matt,I do have a job and today it is crazy. As I have said before I attended LHS graduated,went on to a 4 year college and beyond. I am a MD. Lots of schooling for that. I have no problem sending my kids to LHS and not because I also went there. We live her in Lincoln,I am and always have been very involved with my kids schools and I will continue to be. My kids will do well at whatever high school they attened period. I have smart hard working kids that know the importance of a good education. My husband and I have work hard to teach them that. They will take that with them to either LHS or TBHS or wherever. That is the key here what they have been taught at home. Oh and the comment about inner city schools? Please just stop those silly big city words. To 12Bdesigner,my grammer is awful,I type fast and not very well,I do not stop to correct my grammer sorry for that,I will in the future slow down(if I have the time) and proof read more. I know that you have worked hard with tryign to get the new school built and I am not tyring to offend anyone here. Agian it really comes down to what you have taught your kids that is what they will take with them when all is said and done. Last Edited on 23-Feb-2007 1:09 PM
Townie 250 posts Feb 23, 2007 2:18 PM	LHS IS an inner city school as far as I'm concerned. Before I moved here, I ran a Pop-Facts report on the demographics of Lincoln and 12B. The "downtown" Lincoln demographics are pretty bad - not many people went to college, and hardly any have post-grad degrees. The income level is pretty low. And while this is certainly not a problem that affects soley downtown Lincoln, according to people I've met who graduated from LHS, there are big problems with teen preganancy and methamphetamine use at that school. Will a new 12B high school solve all those problems? Perhaps some, but not all. Certainly the demographics of 12B are "better" than those of downtown. Face it - for the most part, the residents of 12B are better educated and have higher incomes. It doesn't make them better people. It just means that there's a difference. It's a free country. You can choose to hang out with whomever you like. Me? I'd rather have my kids go to a school where the parents are more concerned about having their kids going on to a 4-year college, then concentrating on farming and ranching. kellyg, you seem to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to LHS grads. I have no doubt your kids will do well because you are concerned enough to see to it. I think you'll find that the majority of people however, prefer that their kids go to a school where the emphasis is on quality academics. Sure your kids may do well. But in the end, if they apply to competitive entry univeristy, the high school they graduated from will make a difference whether they are admitted or not. Did you know that universities actually "handicap" GPA's depending upon the kind of high school you graduated from? This means if you get a 4.0 from a non-competitive inner city type school, when your application is compared to that of another kid who happened to graduate from an academic oriented top notch high school, your 4.0 is "downgraded". Everything else being equal, you don't get in - the other kid does. All this may seem like the type of snobbery and arrogance that small town narcissists assign to us big city folks, but it's a big competitive world out there. American kids are already behind the 8-ball on a world standard basis. I'd prefer to give my kids a head start rather than making them needlessly spend energies best directed elsewhere.
kfc 56 posts Feb 23, 2007 3:36 PM	Townie, I would like to know where you are getting your information. Universities do not handicap students from inner city schools.(Lincoln is far from that!!) They look to see that the student has taken the maximum, most demanding classes that the school offers.I have talked to many high school counselors and UC admittance officers about this. As long as the student has taken advantage and excelled in everything the school offers, they receive the same preference as students from affluent communities. I have worked at Granite Bay High School, where only 40% of the students actually head straight to a 4 year college. The reasons for that is that the parents can afford tuition, and that the parents are highly educated and are highly involved in their students education. I have also taught at a rural high school in Foresthill, where over 20% of the students are on a free lunch program, and probably 10% have meth parents. It is not the school that impacts a students success. Highly successful students, with involved parents,will succeed at whatever school they are at. I have seen it in the 12 years that I have taught, and the different socioeconomic levels I have taught in. The difference in test scores is due to the number of english as a second language speakers and parents who are not involved. As long as you are involved and your student challenges her/himself to the maximum,he or she will have no problems getting into college. The only legitimate point to your argument is the overcrowding. That does have an impact on your childs education....but this problem is not limited to Lincoln High. I taught freshman science classes with 40-42 kids at Granite Bay High. Plus, I would rather have my child exposed to other socioeconomic classes and races, so that way they may not turn into an elitist, like you.
kellyg 47 posts Feb 23, 2007 3:52 PM	kfc,well put.
MattFox 349 posts Feb 23, 2007 3:56 PM	Kellyg.....You've obviously grown up in Lincoln and have strong ties to the community. You kids probably have a lot of friends they've known their entire lives that go to school there also. Most of us in 12B are transplanted and don't have that. I could pack up and leave tomorrow and would never look back. So we are looking at this issue from completely different perspectives. No one is saying LHS is all bad and students there are doomed to a life of Section 8 housing and food stamps. But I pretty much have the pick any high school I want right now for my kids and LHS just isn't anywhere near the top of the list. Matt
Townie 251 posts Feb 23, 2007 4:15 PM	Where'd I get my info? Straight from college recruiters back when I was applying, that's where. It does make a difference if the competition at a particular school is mediocre at best. If you go to an academic high school, their counselors are geared towards getting you into the best university possible. These schools offer numerous advanced placement courses. The difference at an academic high school is that there is an expecation of success. If Granite Bay High School sends 40% of their kids to a 4 year univeristy - that's still not saying a lot. 40% is LOW. I believe the statistic at my old high school was 80%. You are both right and wrong. You said "It is not the school that impacts a students success." Totally wrong! The school has a HUGE impact. You are correct however, when you state that parents (also) have a big impact. BTW, I don't totally buy the ESL excuse. Lowell High School in San Francisco has a large minority population. It's test scores are amongst the tops in the nation. Besides, if you take a look at the demographics of Placer County, we don't have nearly the numbers of minorities that the Bay Area does. I LOL'd out loud when I read your statement " I would rather have my child exposed to other socioeconomic classes and races, so that way they may not turn into an elitist, like you." FYI, I AM a minority. My parents were dirt poor when I was a kid. English is NOT my first language. As for exposure to other socioeconomic classes and races, Lincoln pales in comparison to a place like San Francisco. Am I elitist? If by that you mean I have a personal goal to do the very best in whatever it is I attempt, that I expect to be a top wage earner, that I expect my family to do their very best in whatever it is they choose to do, and that I expect that the community I live in to live up to the promises that were advertised in order to draw me here, then yes, I am an elitist. I'd rather be on the top of the ladder than at the bottom.
kellyg 48 posts Feb 23, 2007 6:16 PM	kfc,don't argue with Townie you will not win,she is the kind of person who needs to go to her master suite, put on a fire and take a chill on her temperdic. That is about all she understands. Townie when you have kids let us all know. What kfc is saying is right on,I would believe she knows a little more about how the systems works since she is working in it. I am from here so when people come here and then trash it it tends to pissed me off a little.
Townie 253 posts Feb 23, 2007 6:45 PM	What I understand is I'm not getting what I paid for. 12B was advertised as a new community that was going to get some new schools. That's not happening. And the old schools downtown are just not very good. If the truth hurts your feelings, well.... I did not move to Lincoln for the old town. I really don't care for it, and I don't spend any time there at all. Sorry if that offends some people. I do hope LHS improves for the sake of the kids there. I also hope WPUSD finds a way out of the financial hole it has dug itself into, without resorting to the easy way out - increasing taxes on property owners. Oh well, I'm off to my master suite with the jacuzzi, plasma tv, and mini-bar :-) Last Edited on 23-Feb-2007 6:45 PM
kellyg 49 posts Feb 23, 2007 7:03 PM	I think that we all want what is best for the kids,community and all of Lincoln. The school board needs to get their heads out of their #%@@@. Have fun Townie, I am off to hang out with the kids. Way more fun than anything that you have in your room.
kb 51 posts Feb 24, 2007 9:27 AM	United we stand, divided we fall. We all moved to Lincoln, with the hope that new schools & new communities would be built. And unfortunately we did not get that. There is only two options that we can do. We can leave the area and move to Granite Bay or Rocklin. Or we can voice our concerns together and try to make something good come out of this situation. Rather than fighting amongst ourselves, we need to rally together and get the right people on the School Board - the right people in our city government, and begin to see things change. I believe we can do this too. All it takes is the ability to stand together to see this happen. I know a lot of kids that go to LHS - and they are good kids, belonging to good families. I think the reason the scores are so low is based on the student population of when the surveys are taken. I think if we were to examine the scores now, with the new population here, they probably have gone higher.
Rudog 28 posts Feb 25, 2007 10:33 PM	KB, Well said...We neeed to clean house on the school board and city council. There are many good candidates on this message board that would make a difference and I would vote for if they ran. Until we get some new blood in these school board and city council postions you will only continue to get the same abysmal results and excuses from some of these life time officials who are only trying to get the lifetime health benefits that they voted for themselves with your tax money. Cleanfrk, I'm sorry if I hurt your teens feelings...but it is what it is. LET ME SAY IT AGAIN, LHS IS ONE OF THE WORST ACADEMIC PERFORMING HIGH SCHOOLS IN THE PLACER AREA. I WOULD NEVER SEND MY CHILDREN TO LHS WHEN THEY CAN GO TO MORE SUPERIOR PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ACADEMIC SCHOOLS IN THIS AREA AND STATE. And yes, I will give them that opportunity. I would be ashamed and dissappointed in myself if I did send my children to LHS and that is why that WILL NEVER HAPPEN. LHS's academic performance has been one of the worse performing schools for a long, long time. What has the people of Lincoln done about it? What has the school board done about it? What has the city done about it? And that is exactly why LHS will continue to languish as one of the worst academic performing high schools in the Placer area!!! Last Edited on 25-Feb-2007 10:51 PM
kfc 57 posts Feb 26, 2007 8:56 AM	Townie, First of all, I am sure that Lowell High School is located in an affluent section of San Franiciso, where most of the parents are highly educated. So there is a difference in the kind of student taking the test. Second of all, I am glad that you were able to rise up from poverty to be successful, that shows that you are a hard worker. Although,just being a minority doesn't automatically exclude you from being an elitist. And those farmers and ranchers that you talk so negatively about are the most important people on this planet...you would be dead with out them...or at least very uncomfortable. I have been around a lot of farmers and ranchers, and have found them to be the most honest, hardworking, caring people I have met. If you don't want your child around them, that is a shame. It would do your children well to be exposed to agriculture education. That way they could see how valuable and finite our resources are. Maybe they would learn that it is not necessary to live in million dollar houses with mini-bars and plasma TV's and waste resources and that instead we need to be conserving our resources. Regardless, I understand that you are frustrated because you feel you have been lied to. Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 11:10 AM
Movin'in 104 posts Feb 26, 2007 10:07 AM	Townie~ I'm with you 100%! You know, really this argument is NOT about socio-economic class, or race. This is about trying to give our kids the best chance at success, and great opportunites for their futures. The whole point is, Lincoln as a city does NOT see that! They have a record that is not improving. They can't see outside the little box that has surrounded this city for the past 20 years. They don't take a look around at other schools that are only blocks away and learn from success. Example: For instance, after Granite Oaks Middle School in Rocklin was built, the student body from Springview Middle School was brought over while Springview closed for a complete remodel and upgrade. A year later it re-opened, and boom, two brand new middle schools. Hello...? Lincoln...are you listening....? Nope sorry, they are too busy landing us $200 in debt? And what sort of band-aid are these %@it for brains going to come up with next? What impact will their "solutions" have on the current student bodies at all the schools? What's going to happen when they "hypothetically" decide to open up TBMS and GEMS to all Lincoln 9th graders to make room for all the incoming high schoolers? What happens if they decide to go year-round school calendars like Stockton and Modesto..? This district has major problems, and they are only just beginning. This is NOT a rich kid/poor kid issue. This is an issue about standards, and what every child should be offered to succeed. If this kind of standard is ok for you, well then you get what you pay for I guess. Some of us place a higher value on eduation. And I expect a school district to do the same!
WILDOAK 180 posts Feb 26, 2007 11:23 AM	The bottom line is, every parent that bought a home in Twelve Bridges prior to November of 2006, was lied to. Instead of buying location, location, location. We all bought into promises, promises,.....false promises. I was one of those. Unfortunately you don't have to be a parent to suffer. Those without children are also suffering because the value of their home has also been affected greatly by the fiasco we find ourselves in. I have nothing against LHS with a reasonable student population and a push for improvement in academic excellence and I even believe the LHS farm has value. The overwhelming problem is that the situation cannot get better with more overcrowding....it can only get worse. So even if LHS is OK now...it will not be OK soon...and therein lies the problem. Frankly we are not only out of money we are out of time! I too will be requesting an inter-district transfer and will stand up and support any parent who also wants one and if one is not granted, I will sue to have the district, city, and developers that fed us these promises to get us to move here pay for my lose of equity and subsequent cost of moving. Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 11:44 AM
norcal68 24 posts Feb 26, 2007 12:49 PM	This just popped in my inbox from Greatschool.net This month we're looking at Advanced Placement (AP) tests. Even if your child is in elementary or middle school, it's not too soon to learn about which tests are offered at the high school your child may attend, and how your child can begin preparing. I think that a lot of people don't realize what great schools offer students. It is not about wealthy parents/students,demographics or even necessarily about new facilites (which are a bonus).It is about OPPORTUNITY! A great school offers a variety of classes to challenge students. It prepares your children to be the best they can be. It offers AP & honor classes to get your child advanced standing in college. It offers techinical and vocational opportunites that give children "real" marketable skills. It exposes them to a variety of teachers with different backrounds, strengths, and educational levels. It is not always about tests scores. It is about opportunity. Students need to be able to excel wherever their strengths are, if they are in performance arts, sports, languages, science, etc... I think that students need to be able to explore other areas of interest while in school. College is for fine tuning these areas of interest. I grew up in the Bay Area and attended schools that had some of the highest tests scores in the state. There were children of all races in these schools. The difference between these schools and the neighboring ones were parents and administrators who valued education and opportunity above all. This is why you see such high API scores in Cupertino,Palo Alto, and some SF schools. There are many "minorities" at these schools. I have no doubt that my children could attend LHS and still attend excellent colleges and have successful careers. However, it is difficult to change the energy of an exisiting school. Right now, LHS has enough challenges just finding desks and lunch tables for its kids. The biggest bonus of a new school is everyone is charged with new energy & powerful ideas. Time doesn't have to be wasted on "undoing" systems that aren't working. All students benefit from the postive energy and parents and teachers will expect greater things from these students. Students expect greater things from themselves. This is the kind of school environment I want for my children. I see it at TBE. I think you have to look harder for it at other schools in Lincoln. I would hate to have to leave Lincoln in search of this because I see the potential for this here. Wow- Upon rereading this, I think I need to layoff the caffeine! :) Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 1:03 PM
Rudog 29 posts Feb 26, 2007 1:08 PM	KFC, Yes, farmers are very important people and businesses to our society, but don't they need to excel in math, reading and science? Don't they also need to go to 4 year Universities to educate themselves as well? Or are you saying farmers don't need a great education or even need to go to college? If that is the case then LHS is the perfect school for them and is probably part of the reason why the academic standards have been so abysmal for years!. Nothing will change at LHS except 500 plus more students who will receive the same below standards education. Townie, Unfortuantely the truth hurts and many people of Lincoln cannot except the fact that LHS and WPUSD is one of the worst school districts in the area. Comapring Lowell High School to LHS is like comparing one of the best High schools in the nation to one of the worst. Expectations at Lowell from parents, students, faculty and admin are so much higher than LHS that there is no comparison. The fact is that the education standards (in general) in this town from the parents, city and school officials are not high and never have been compared to other excellent school districts. You are probably not far off by stating that standards are more comparable to some of the inner city school in America. I'm sure parents care about their kids eduation, but to what degree compared to other parents from great academic school districts? 5 parents go to board meetings. Same few people volunteer at school functions. Only $6K was raised at the 12B auction last year. And now the parents with some of the highest expecations for their childrens education (like time2ski, WILDOAK & 12B Designer) are moving their kids to othe school districts. Not to mention some of the bozos on the school board who can't even balance a checkbook (missing $200 million). In GENERAL, Many parents of Lincoln are satisfied with 15% of the graduating students going to 4 year Universities, math scores that rank last in the area, API scores more than 100 plus points less than the state goal. I agree with you that going to a 4 year university was expected from my parents and not even a big deal. In fact getting a Master degeree was par for the course. Unfortunately for the kids in Lincoln, graduating from High School or transfering to a JC is meeting or exceeding parents and this school districts expecations! Thus, you need to ask yourself if this is the type of school disrict that you want your children to got to??? Thanks, but no thank you! Last Edited on 20-Apr-2007 7:40 AM
kfc 58 posts Feb 26, 2007 1:25 PM	Rudog, My only point about farmers was directed at townie who spoke of them as if they were second class citizens. That really bothered me..so I responded.
MattFox 351 posts Feb 26, 2007 1:43 PM	norcal, I suspect that the "minority" (whatever that means these days) demographics in Palo Alto, Cupertino and San Francisco are just a wee bit different than Lincoln. You can't just lump all "minorities" together when talking about education. If you were to rank all the top high schools in CA, I'd bet you'd find some obvious demographic trends that far outweigh other factors like age of facilities, $$/SF of construction, parent income levels, cost per student, etc. Matt
kfc 59 posts Feb 26, 2007 2:22 PM	I swear this will be my last...but quit calling Lincoln High and its API similar to an inner city school. It is nothing like Hiram Johnson or Grant with API's in the 500s. It is in the same league as Oakmont and Woodcreek. One of the main factors that Rocklin and Granite Bay's API's are so high, really does have a lot to do with the fact that the communities are relatively new with highly educated parents. Teachers and Administration are not that different. The same basic curriculum is taught at Granite Bay and Oakmont, with the exception of electives. Teachers transfer between the two schools, but the api is 100 points off due to demographics. You act like a high school is going to make or break your child. I know many very successful people that did not go to one of the "best schools in the state".I know people that went to a community college and then transferred to Sac State and are now making 500,000 plus a year. A lot of the success is dependent on the person that has become of the child. I know that you are entitled to all of your opinions and that I am in the minority, but just in case you can't get that transfer...relax..as long as you have raised a motivated child..they will be just fine. Also....I saw a lot of this at Granite Bay...too much parental pressure on a child to take the most and do the best is not good for your child.( IN my opinion) Sometimes parents need to take a step back and let their child relax and be a kid...god knows the rest of their lives will not be relaxing.
Rudog 30 posts Feb 26, 2007 5:03 PM	KFC, You are entitiled to your opinion and I appreciate your perspective. Sure there are many exceptions to the rule at any public school. I'm sure there are exceptions at LHS. And I do agree with you that the parents and the child are key elements to a childs success. Which is exactly my concern!! The expectation and involvement level (in general) from Lincoln parents are very low compared to schools with outstanding academic performances. In addition, LHS has had low academic results for many, many years...not just recently. What has WPUSD and parents done to improve the situation?? WPUSD added another 500 more students to LHS and the same 5 parents show up at all the school board meetings! You have parents that have low expecataions for their children's eduation and a school board that is and has been basically incompetent! Thus, the end result is we are now talking about how we can send our children to different school districts!!! As a parent do I want to send my child to a school where parent expecations and involvement are low? Where the majority of graduating SRS don't go to a 4 year University. Where 60% go to a JC and who really knows how many actually go on to a 4 Yr University. That leaves another 25% who don't even go on to a JC??? The school ranks last in Math and children are learning in overcrowded trailers? And yes regarding the comparison with inner city schools...it's still the same, those schools like LHS are far below the 800 state average. And that is if you think that the minimum 800 api score is acceptable. Again, despite my childs resolve...do I want them in that kind of environment! NEVER! I will not let that happen to my children. Again, these are choices that each parent from this town need to make. I will choose not to send my kids to LHS because I know there are many other public schools that are far superior to LHS and WPUSD. Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 5:23 PM
MattFox 352 posts Feb 26, 2007 5:15 PM	kfc, what I don't think you realize is that the quality of the schools is pretty much the only reason for me to choose where I live (I assume I'm not alone in this thinking). So if I have the choice between LHS or School X or School Y, why would I choose LHS over another shool with better statistics, newer facilities, less overcrowding, etc? For all the talk supporting LHS, there has not been one comment that starts out as "LHS is better than all the other high schools in this area because....". All the comments have been "It's really not all that bad" or "good parenting and good students can overcome all the problems". Sorry, but not very convincing. Matt
Rudog 31 posts Feb 26, 2007 5:33 PM	MATT FOX, I agree wholeheartedly! If I had known that my children would have to go to LHS I wouldn't have spent the $$$ to move here. The developers, city and school district promoted and sold a new high school to many of us. Now that we have paid our property taxes, bonds and Mello Roos, to help build it, they've basically have told us to screw ourselves (the new high school will not be built because WPUSD screwed up) and that LHS is the high school that my children will have to go to..take it or leave it! Well I choose to leave it!!! It's too bad because the city had a lot of potential, however there are too many incompetent people making the decisions in this town. Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 5:48 PM
kfc 60 posts Feb 26, 2007 5:36 PM	RUdog The statewide goal is 800...the average is in the high 600's. I understand all your points...but API scores...a standardized test, really does not tell you much about what the kids are learning. I know that it is all we have, but it really is not an effective tool. Sincerely, Good luck to everyone getting your transfers and selling your house. I hope it works for you. At least it will make the high school less crowded for my kids. Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 8:27 PM
time2ski 110 posts Feb 26, 2007 6:43 PM	I appreciate all these intelligent posts. Like Rudog, I would have expected a larger voice to be heard from the parent community regarding this issue. I hope this is not an indication of the effort parents are making on their children's education. I do think it's a little sad that there are 10 times as many cars at the Sunday service at 12 Bridges Elem. than there are at any school board meeting. (On second thought, maybe people have something new to pray for!) The board will have definitive information regarding the high school in June and we'll all then be in a position to decide what's right for our families.
Rudog 33 posts Feb 26, 2007 10:51 PM	Norcal 68, Excellent perspective...I really doubt Lincoln will ever meet the standards of some of the great bay area schools unless we can get a mass exodus of bay area folks to move to Lincoln. Unfortunately, parents, school board and city council just do not have the high expectaions nor the motivation to make this a great school district. The town is used to the below average academic standards in their school district and don't know anything else. KFC, I appreciate you defending LHS for your childrens sake. I'm sure if my children had to go to LHS I would try to do the same. As I said, the LHS API scores are no different than inner city schools in that they both are well below and do not meet the state average of 800. But let's disregard API scores as you mentioned. LHS still, * Ranks last in math proficiency in Placer County * Ranks a 5 out of 10 in schools similar * 25% of SRs do not go to a JC or 4 yr college (or dont't even graduate from LHS) * Only 15% of students go on to 4 year Universities * School is overcrowded despite the BS from the board and will add another 500 more students In addition, only 5 parents out of the entire city go to school board meetings and you still have an incompetent school board running this sinking ship. I wish you and your children the best of luck at LHS! Last Edited on 26-Feb-2007 11:03 PM
MattFox 353 posts Feb 27, 2007 1:38 AM	Rudog, to be fair, I do think you are spinning things a little unfairly. Out of curiosity I loaded up the API statistics into Excel. For example, if you happen to be a white student, then the API was 764 at LHS, which is right up there with Oakmont (765) and higher than many of the other high schools in Placer County....and above the HS I went to (Del Campo in Fair Oaks). Funny, because I always thought Del Campo was a good High School. Only three in Placer County were over 800 so we are talking about very small differences. There are a lot of high schools in Sacramento County with total APIs under 700 and inner city schools are typically below 600. Although LHS has lowest average educational level among parents in Placer, still 60% of LHS parents have at least some college education and only 8% did not graduate from high school. LHS ranks 344th out of the 1,000 or so high schools in the state of CA with more than 150 students, going by API. Not sure what this all means, but it's obvious that there are plenty of students that are doing just fine at LHS. But Rocklin High and Granite Bay High still kick butt in pretty much every academic category. It will be interesting to see where Whitney will be on the list. And maybe someday we'll even see 12 BR HS on the list. The other interesting thing I noticed was just how poorly Horizon does with the test scores. Not sure why, but I would have assumed they'd have done better. Matt Last Edited on 27-Feb-2007 1:52 AM
kfc 61 posts Feb 27, 2007 6:52 AM	Thanks Matt, for taking the time to do that, that was one of the points I was trying to make..but you just did it better! I totally understand the frustration you guys feel. If I had paid a lot of money for a house here in hopes there would be great schooling, I would be angry, since I would be kicking myself for not just buying in Rocklin or Granite Bay. I was just trying to make a point that it is not sooooooooo bad, and definately could be worse. Also, that real life work experience that someone was talking about only offered at great schools. It is actually offered to all students in Placer County. It is called 49er ROP and students can travel to whatever school that offers the program they are interested in . They could go to Granite Bay in the afternoons to do Computer programming, or to Auburn to do Vet stuff or Marketing at Rocklin High. Lincoln High offers 5-6 Rop classes right on campus. There are over 40 different ROP classes available to the kids. I used to teach ROP Forestry. Just a little fyi Last Edited on 27-Feb-2007 7:26 AM
Rudog 34 posts Feb 27, 2007 7:59 AM	MATT FOX, I'm not spinning anything...the numbers are the numbers! Isn't 764 still under the state goal of 800? Many "white" kids in other good school districts are scoring well over 800! "White" kids are still scoring under the state goal at LHS and what, you and KFC are doing backflips! What about the "non-white kids"? Which only proves my point that expecations from many parents are so low in Lincoln that LHS will NEVER BE A TOP HIGH SCHOOL! You think I'm satisfied with 764 which is still under the state goal! MATT FOX if you think so highly of LHS and you contend things aren't so bad put your money where your mouth is and send your kids to LHS when they are ready to go to high school. In addition, why don't you figure out on your excel spreadsheet the reason why LHS ranks a 5 out of 10, ranks last in Math in the area, only 15% of Srs go on to 4 years Universities while 25% don't go on to college at all, while kids learn in trailers and another 500 more kids are on the way! Yes, it's not that bad at LHS...Its just not the high school I want my kids to attend. Last Edited on 27-Feb-2007 8:00 AM
lxc 18 posts Feb 27, 2007 8:27 AM	I believe the % rate is so low because of the city itself, not the school. the older part of the city is lowermiddle class and then there are rural areas. alot of people here dont have the money to go to a 4 year or even a community college. I did not go to a 4 year because of financial reasons, I know there are loans, but I did not want the burden of that debt looming over my head. I did attend a community college, because that is what I could afford. Now that I am in a better financial situation as an adult, I may attend sac state in a few years. There is no doubt LHS is overcrowded and we need a second high school. I just dont think the % of kids going to college really has anything to do with the high school itself. The richer and more powerful the residents of a city, the higher % of children go to college.
kfc 62 posts Feb 27, 2007 9:16 AM	rudog I am not doing flipflops. If you read my posting.. I said "I understand that if YOU had paid a lot of money to live here in hopes of having GREAT SCHOOLING for you kids,(and that was really important to you, like what Matt said it was) why YOU would be angry." Perhaps I could have made my point clearer, though. I didn't say, I would be angry. I absolutely wouldn't. I would rather my kids go to a school like Lincoln, than attend a school like Granite Bay. I have been there and have seen the snobs and major pressure placed on the kids. I don't want my kids around that, and I don't want to be around those other parents either. But you want the absolute best for your children and that is great. We just have different opinions on what is the best. So I will stop arguing about this. It is really just a way to get out my aggressions!! I can't argue like this with my kids.. Last Edited on 27-Feb-2007 9:17 AM
Rudog 35 posts Feb 27, 2007 10:26 AM	KFC, I appreciate your perspective and your opinions. My frustrations are not directed at you in any way. I'm sure your children are the exceptions to the rule and will succeed at LHS. We have a difference of opinion, but I agree that we both want the best education possible for our children. If you feel you can get that at LHS then I wish you nothing but success! Again, as Wildoak and Townie mentioned previously, I was sold a lot of BS from the developer, school district and city. I would not have moved to Lincoln if I had known that my kids would have to go to LHS. Again, that is not the HS that was sold to me nor is that the HS I want my children to attend. Now I'm left paying expensive property taxes, Mello Roos and bonds for a bogus high school that will never get built!
MattFox 354 posts Feb 28, 2007 10:23 AM	Rudog, I'm not saying your statistics are incorrect. Just that you are spinning them to make the school look worse than it is. For example, there are only about 120 high schools in all of CA that have API scores of 800 or above, including only 1 in Placer county. So saying LHS is a bad school or parents at LHS don't care, just because it doesn't meet the state goal of 800 API doesn't tell the whole story....which is that the vast majority of HS's in CA don't meet that goal either. If you want a school that meets the 800 goal in Placer County, I hope you've got some money saved up, because you'll have to move to Granite Bay. So if your kids end up at a school that does not have 800 API, how would you like it if people accused you of not caring about your kids education because their school doesn't meet the state goal?? Also, my understanding is that the ranking numbers you are quoting are percentiles. So a 5 of of 10 means average, not failure. Your statistics regarding # of students that go onto college are also not very meaningful unless compared to something. If my kids grew up in Lincoln and had lots of friends that were going to LHS, or I had some reason to live in Lincoln vs. nearby communities, I don't think I'd have a problem sending my kids to LHS. But I don't have any reason to live in Lincoln vs. somewhere else and my kids are still in pre-school so my long-term plans do not include LHS. Not because it's a bad school, but because it's not number 1 on my list of potential choices. As far as 12B HS, I also feel a bit cheated because I also would not have moved here if not for 12B HS. I'm still holding out hope that it will be built by the time my kids are old enough to go there. Matt Last Edited on 28-Feb-2007 10:28 AM
Rudog 36 posts Mar 01, 2007 1:20 AM	MattFox, After all that research and Googling that is the best response you can give? You spent so much time and effort trying to "spin" LHS High School to make it better that you can't even remember your own arguments about why you wouldn't send your kids there!!! Why don't you read your own quotes below and put a 'new spin' on them!!! "IF I HAVE the choice between LHS or school X or school Y, why would I choose LHS over another school with BETTER STATISTICS, NEWER FACILITIES, LESS OVERCROWDING, ETC. --MATT FOX "FOR all the talk supporting LHS...All the comments have been-- ITS really not that bad or good parenting and good students can overcome all the problems. SORRY ,BUT NOT VERY CONVINCING."---MATT FOX So now that we know you like talking out of both sides of your mouth let's move on to the next point. Speaking of "spinning" the numbers to make LHS seem better than it is...Isn't that what you did when you manupulated the numbers on the EXCEL spreadsheet to show the API scores of "White" kids at 764? Well as you know LHS is not just "white" kids. There are many ESL students which include Hispanics and others who don't master the english language. Thus, if you include the "non whites" like other public schools then the API scores are at 690 for the entire school, not the 764 you got from your spreadsheet. You can manipulate the numbers any way you want in order to "spin" LHS in a positive manner, but the fact is the numbers do not lie and the school overall is far below the state average. Now your point about me "accusing people of not caring about kids education because the scores don't meet the state goal". YOU seem to very good at 1. Not reading or understanding my post 2. Trying to put your "spin' on my post to make your point 3. talking out of your @#$ and putting your words in my mouth I never accused people of "not caring" about kids education because the API scores don't meet the state goal. CAN YOU PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I SAID THE WORD "NOT CARING ABOUT KIDS EDUCATION BECAUSE OF API SCORES???" You can't because I never siad it... Again, It's only your "SPIN" to make your point! API scores are only one part of their education. How many @#$% times do I need to tell you it's not about caring but about RAISING EXPECTATIONS and API scores are ONE PART of their education. But since you brought up not caring for children's education...How many Parnet's attend school board meetings? 3-5! How Many parents volunteer at school functions? Same parents! HOW MANY SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS HAVE YOU ATTENDED RECENTLY? Oh I forgot, YOU DON'T CARE becasue your kids are not effected right now! In regards to the ranking numbers that you claim are not very meaningful. They are not meaningful to you...but who are you! You think I care whether you think its meaningful! I think it's meaningful and that is what matters. KFC had more conviction and a better argument about sending her kids to LHS than your BS and I respect her for that. You on the other hand are just wasting my time with your attempt to "spin" things in a weak attempt to make a point while at the same time talking out of both sides of your mouth! Last Edited on 1-Mar-2007 1:42 AM